We have our first topic for discussion! This one is particularly appropriate consider what Ben has been, and will be, teaching on during Wonbyone.
The question is: biblically speaking, how do the concepts of predestination and free will relate to one another?
I would encourage you guys to go to the scriptures before you post here. While it is often helpful to read what other people have to say about a topic when forming our own opinions and beliefs, the ultimate authority is the scriptures. Please feel free to go ahead and make a comment regarding what you see in the scriptures, its importance to your life as a believer, or any questions you have about the topic that you just can't quite get your mind around without a little help!
The question is: biblically speaking, how do the concepts of predestination and free will relate to one another?
I would encourage you guys to go to the scriptures before you post here. While it is often helpful to read what other people have to say about a topic when forming our own opinions and beliefs, the ultimate authority is the scriptures. Please feel free to go ahead and make a comment regarding what you see in the scriptures, its importance to your life as a believer, or any questions you have about the topic that you just can't quite get your mind around without a little help!
posted by Tim Knotts @ 7:18 AM
4 Comments:
At 3:20 PM,
Katie B. said…
Well obviously somewhere between Psalm 139 16 Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed.
And in Your book they all were written,
The days fashioned for me,
When as yet there were none of them.
And Romans 8
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
I get some idea that God not only is fully involved in what we do and say but also that He certainly has a plan for us all. I found this on the same site that I pulled those verse off of, from Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary (Psalm 139:7-16)
God knows all things.
God has perfect knowledge of us, and all our thoughts and actions are open before him. It is more profitable to meditate on Divine truths, applying them to our own cases, and with hearts lifted to God in prayer, than with a curious or disputing frame of mind. That God knows all things, is omniscient; that he is every where, is omnipresent; are truths acknowledged by all, yet they are seldom rightly believed in by mankind. God takes strict notice of every step we take, every right
step and every by step. He knows what rule we walk by, what end we walk toward, what company we walk with. When I am withdrawn from all company, thou knowest what I have in my heart. There is not a vain word, not a good word, but thou knowest from what thought it came, and with what design it was uttered. Wherever we are, we are under the eye and hand of God. We cannot by searching find how God searches us out; nor do we know how we are known. Such thoughts should restrain us from sin.
But while this only skims the surface of freewill v. predestination. While there is no doubt in my mind that predestination is clearly spelled out in many areas of the Bible, freewill seems to be harder to find proof of in the Bible. However, it is there. Take for instance Genesis 3 where we find the temptation and fall of man.
17 Then to Adam He [God] said, “Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat of it’:
“ Cursed is the ground for your sake;
In toil you shall eat of it
All the days of your life.
It's hard to see what I mean from just this verse ( I didn't want to put down the whole chapter- go look it up yourself!) This has always been such a mystery to me as to how two perfect human beings could fall into sin like this. None the less, God never, as Paul says, ever tempts us to sin. I must assume then that the first sin of man and all other sins that come after it, are because of freewill. In our preredemptive states we practice our freewill without any barriers. (save the common grace of God) We practice our freewill by sinning. But actually as Ben has stated before even this is a limited freedom because we are stuck in this rut of sin. We really have freewill to sin and that is it. So I guess what I'm getting at is that freewill is not to be desired. If God were to give humans extreme freewill (that is to say they could sin in any way they wished without the previous knowledge or consent of God) The human race would destroy itself very quickly. Unbelievers are very much like children on a sugar high. They just run around bouncing off the walls, destroying things with either some or no guilt. And then after that what do they want? More sugar! So yes, sinners are addicted to sin. (No, sugar is not a sin!) And therefore they have NO freewill outside the constraints of God's sovereignty. REMEMBER: The rain falls on the just and the unjust. I am not saying that God does not control the actions of sinners. I am making the point that freewill is a very hard concept for me to get around ( until I take God out of the picture!)
At 12:39 PM,
Anonymous said…
wow! those are some good points Katie! I'm not sure where i stand on the subject of free will, (i've heard so many different veiw points on it!) so this should be an interseting discusion to read!
At 2:33 PM,
Anonymous said…
hey i was wondering if it was ok if none wonbyOne goers could comment???
At 4:27 PM,
Tim Knotts said…
Anyone is welcome to participate!
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